mulhollandj
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| 08/15/2006 12:27 PM |
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I can tell you still haven't read how other brethren use counterfeit or even what the dictionary definition is. I never said to tell me what the seventy said. I said I would be happy to discuss this with him. I have never said that all people who are on welfare are pathetic drains on society. They are people who are in need and are misled by those who seek to control them. What is the purpose of a secret combination? Are they in our government? I have never sought to control you. I have only sought to influence you. Just because a friend tells you that you are doing something wrong doesn't mean he is trying to run your life. I do not want you to follow me. I am not the answer and I do not know everything.
It saddens me that you are full of so much venom and not only to me. If you don't think so then try having another friend read through what you have posted and ask them if you are full of love and concern for others.
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mulhollandj
Posts:230
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| 08/15/2006 12:38 PM |
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Sixline,
You and eeyore are sure putting words in my mouth. David B. Haight said that it was a counterfeit. Please read the previous discussion. Show me the PEF guidelines saying that you can use federal aid.
Why don't you read through the previous discussion and comment on what you think of our arguements? And of course you think that gov welfare is ok. You are using it.
I have compassion to those less fortunate and these programs do not ultimately help. They destroy peoples' lives for many different reasons. The recipient does not have to work for what he gets. Eeyore said all that he had to do was follow the rules and he got his 'free' money. On the other end we have been warned repeatedly about the extreme dangers of socialism. Have you headed the warning? |
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engineereeyore
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| 08/15/2006 1:36 PM |
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mulhollandj
Posts:230
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| 08/15/2006 2:39 PM |
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I never said cut off welfare immediately? You have said this several times is plain untrue. Ezra Taft Benson even said that welfare should be dissolved slowly. Please admit that you were wrong in saying this.
I cannot you give you any good points. You and your friends, also livinig off of the government, will either claim it is opinion or twist it to your own way of thinking. You want to support your own position even if it is a counterfeit. You don't understand that the brethren have used counterfeit over and over and over again when talking about Satan. I means to be deceptive. And somehow you think Elder Haight meant somthing different. If you and your friends want to live by the counterfeit then go right ahead and destroy yourselves.
I love your comment about how guilty I am. That shows how strong your arguement is. Because I have made a mistake in the past due to a lack of knowledge I am condemned with those who are still doing it when the knowledge has been offered them? Great arguement.
Have your friend from the Seventy contact me or look at my comments on this board. I have no way to contact him myself. |
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engineereeyore
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| 08/15/2006 3:09 PM |
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Code101
Posts:68
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| 08/15/2006 3:36 PM |
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| I thought that we were talking about Socialist Schools here. What I think is funny is how all this grant funding and other education funding is being cut. Back in the days of old, kids attended private schools. Kids today who attend private schools perform much better. You all are talking about the Church so much well what about this, BYU!!! BYU is a private school. It would be cool to see USU go private because of funding cuts. Look at all the private schools that keep coming out of the woodwork. The public is asking for tax cuts for those who pull their kids out of public schools. This idea keeps getting more popular. |
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sixline
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| 08/15/2006 3:44 PM |
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mulholland:
You are manipulative. You are arrogant.
You demand people to admit when they're wrong. You demand that people go back and read what you say. You offer no concession of wrongdoing on your part. You tell people to read what you say with an open mind so that in the end, if they don't do what you say or come to a different conclusion, you can always say that they're being closed minded and that you are the enlightened one. You are so indirect in what you say you have a thousand exits and ways to hide. I'm sorry I spent any time reading what you said and bothering to take the time to respond.
You stink. Here's to hoping we never meet. |
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mulhollandj
Posts:230
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| 08/15/2006 3:56 PM |
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Is your plan to keep welfare going and change it to fix the 'problems' or is it to eliminate it after a period? It seems that you are switching back and forth. If you are about changing it then you are not in agreement with President Benson. If you are for ending it then why is it not better to move the church's system now?
I obviously cannot defend myself in person to your friends as you can. I do not know what they have read or what you have told them in person so it means little to me.
Did I ever say I was better than you or better than anybody? Did I ever say that people were bad for living off of the government? I have only attacked the program that Elder Haight called the "world's counterfeit" and said that I have learned from my mistakes. Do you mock Alma the younger when he tries to explain how much better off he is? I am only trying to share what I have found and you yell, scream, and call me names for it. Is this how you treat all people who try to help you or just those you disagree with?
Why should you contact your friend? If I am wrong then I want to know how I am wrong. He can read through my arguement if he wants to and show me where my holes are. But that is up to you. That is why I have asked my priesthood leader to help me in my research. I will let you know if I receive a satisfactory answer or not of why my arguement is wrong. If not then I will keep going up until I either find one or am told that I am correct. |
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mulhollandj
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| 08/15/2006 4:03 PM |
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I want to finish this arguement. I want people to admit when they are clearly wrong. And I didn't demand, I asked politely. Eeyore told me to correct him.
Why did I say go back and read what I said? So you knew what you were talking about instead of just butting in and making all the same assumptions Eeyore has. This is arrogant and manipulative?
I have kept an open mind and have found Eeyore's arguements very weak. I am continuing to do my own research and speak my priesthood leaders. Is this not keeping an open mind? |
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engineereeyore
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| 08/15/2006 4:48 PM |
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engineereeyore
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| 08/15/2006 4:49 PM |
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Code101
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| 08/15/2006 5:25 PM |
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Posted By engineereeyore on 08/15/2006 4:48 PM
You know what that means? It mean you can shut up!!! Whether I take assistance or not is absolutely none of your business and you have no place to judge or condemn me.
Not True!!!
Hello! The Taxes I pay is very much my business. If you want to accept help from private sources fine, that is not my business, you are right. If you take help from the Church, it is between you and the Lord. When you take help from the government, as a citizen, I demand accountability from those who are being helped. When I have to pay higher and higher Taxes for people who seem to be on Government assistance their whole life, I'm only standing up for myself and other hard working Americans who are being forced to be charitable. I have the right to say enough help is enough!!! It is very much my business thank you very much!
As I said before, I thought we were talking about socialist or more like communist schools in this thread.
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engineereeyore
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| 08/15/2006 5:45 PM |
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Code101
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| 08/15/2006 6:18 PM |
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Hey engineer!
Aren't you a piece of work! You seem to not be able to debate without being a total smart a**
I'll mind my own business when I'm BEEP good and ready. You and your good buddy sixline call others "manipulative" and "arrogant." Listen to yourself!!! Is this how you conduct yourself all the time? When you debate with people do you always make yourself sound this arrogant to the point of hurting your own cause due to your child like actions?
Government assistance for someone's whole life or for a few months is my business and the business of every citizen who pays Taxes, I don't give a BEEP if you like it or not! It is the responsibility of citizens to know when their money is being used and how! When it comes to being the business of the people, is not up to you. Go ahead and think what ever that little head of yours wants to think. What you don't like is that people are starting to say no to more Taxes!!! Funding for entitlement programs is starting to drop, thank God! America is not a Country where everyone just is entitled to rape and pillage the treasury any old time. The founding fathers would agree with me!
You must go to USU. Did they fill your head with this crap? Is this what my BEEPing tax dollars pay for?
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admin
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| 08/15/2006 6:27 PM |
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OK guys,
This is getting to be a bit too personal. Please keep it to the facts. Everyone has had some good points and arguments to make. Just keep it to the subject and not on a person vs. person basis.
Good debate!
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mulhollandj
Posts:230
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| 08/15/2006 7:01 PM |
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| By the way eeyore, my wife looked up your source and couldn't find it. That is the second one of your sources we have tried to find but have been unable to. Great support. There was an article in the month's magazine which says self then family then church and it was up to you if you want to the government but that is after church. |
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engineereeyore
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| 08/15/2006 7:04 PM |
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engineereeyore
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| 08/15/2006 7:09 PM |
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mulhollandj
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| 08/15/2006 7:52 PM |
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| Eeyore, you are just being stupid and obnoxious. Perhaps it was a mistake to invite you to an forum of adults who know how to behave. I will not respond to any of either yours or your friends comments as it is a waste of time because you are in no mood to change your opinion even when proven wrong. |
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engineereeyore
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| 08/15/2006 7:58 PM |
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