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Subject: What You Haven't Been Told
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Gunrights
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04/13/2007 11:05 AM  

                                 Political Correctness Kills or

What you Haven't Been Told About SLC shooting

   

Monday, March 19, 2007

By Srdja Trifkovic

Originalling Appearing in Chroncle Magazine

Utah Shootings: Yet Another Case of Sudden Jihad Syndrome, After All

Five weeks after the shooting spree by a 19-year old Bosnian Muslim, Sulejman Talovic, left five people dead and four wounded in a Salt Lake City shopping mall, the authorities claim to be clueless about his motives. The mainstream media, as our readers may recall, were quick to blame the Serbs for Talovic’s alleged early-childhood traumas that supposedly caused him to crack. (They even interviewed a Bosnian jihadi veteran to make that point.) From what we now know about the case, however, it appears that the rampage in Utah was yet another “lone wolf” attack by a Muslim-as-Muslim—in other words, yet another outbreak of the deadly sudden jihad syndrome (SJS) that is erupting across America with increasing regularity.


Talovic’s family and a “shocked” Bosnian-Muslim community were unsurprisingly quick to reject any possibility of the jihadist connection. “We are Muslims, but we are not terrorists,” the killer’s aunt, Ajka Omerovic, told the media. She rejected out of hand any religious motive for the shooting and claimed the family “can’t explain it”; but this may not have been the first case of SJS in the family: Amir Omerovic, apparently Talovic’s cousin, threatened to spread anthrax in 2002. Omerovic admitted sending letters to the offices of Gov. John G. Rowland, the U.S. Coast Guard and Marines in Connecticut, and the Judicial Review Council in Hartford. “This is only the beginning,” Omerovic’s letters said. “Americans will die. Death to America and Israel.”

Talovic’s Bosnian-born girlfriend who lives in Texas, and who knew him only through daily hours-long telephone conversations, says that his favorite film was Malcolm X—the same movie that triggered off John Walker Lindh’s path to jihad. Contrary to the family’s assurances, she also revealed that he had a contact at the local mosque, a man he met while attending services there. The mosque in question is just two blocks from the scene of carnage. It is the same mosque attended by U.S. Marine Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun, the deserter now safely back in his native Lebanon.

On the eve of his attack Talovic told his girlfriend that something was going to happen the following day, an event that she may find unforgivable; yet he added that it was going to be “the happiest day of his life,” and that “it could only happen once in a lifetime.” The statement seems mysterious, and indicative of mental instability, if pondered outside the framework of Islamic imagery. If we assume that Talovic was motivated by jihad, however, the meaning of “the happiest day” that could “only happen once” becomes clear. The Kuran vouches that “those who are slain in the path of Allah” are not dead; (3:169) they are granted immediate entry to paradise, “to rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah.” This assurance is elaborated in the Tradition, and it is reiterated by countless orthodox Islamic sources. Thus when a suicide bomber blows himself up at an Israeli bus stop, loudspeakers on mosque minarets in the West Bank and Gaza announce his name with the “glad tidings” that “the virgins of paradise are happily receiving their new groom.” Families distribute sweets, as they would do at a wedding celebration.

A particularly intriguing revelation by the girl concerns a vision that Talovic told her he had experienced while still in Bosnia: One evening, as the sun was falling, he heard a horse outside of his family’s home. He walked out and, standing before him was a white horse “with two beautiful eyes.” He alerted his aunt, but she could not see the animal. The incident nevertheless made young Talovic “very, very happy.” To understand the meaning of this episode, and the reasons for the killer’s happiness, we need to turn to the Islamic Imagery Project compiled by the West Point Combating Terrorism Center:

The white horse is inextricably tied to conceptions of the prophet, martyrdom, and paradise (heaven). It is most often associated with . . . Muhammad’s miraj or night journey to heaven, when the Prophet ascended to heaven on the back of a white horse. In this regard, the white horse most specifically evokes notions of the afterlife and the heavenly paradise awaiting pious Muslims (or jihadi martyrs) upon their death . . . [I]n both Sunni and Shiite traditions, the white horse is strongly associated with martyrdom and the expectation of heavenly paradise. In the images selected, the white horses are associated with images of individual jihadi martyrs. Used in this manner, the white horse evokes the righteousness of these individuals’ martyrdom, and reminds the audience that these men have been granted the martyr’s promised reward of ascension to heavenly paradise.

If it looks like SJS, and kills like SJS… but the mainstream media refuse to connect the dots, and the authorities claim that there are no dots to be connected.

We’ve seen it all before, of course. As I noted in these pages almost two years ago, the pattern is by now almost boringly predictable: a Muslim commits an act of violence, or is caught plotting to commit one. The authorities are either quick to deny the suspect’s links with Islamic terrorism, or, if such a link is nevertheless suspected, adamant that he is acting alone. The local Muslim community responds with a mix of indignation and denial, with the assurances of the suspects’ impeccable character and surprise at his action, and with accusations of anti-Muslim bias. Non-Muslim civic leaders then respond by reassuring the Muslim community that it is loved and appreciated in spite of this “isolated incident,” and by calling on their fellow-citizens to be warm and supportive to their Muslim neighbors. The media report heart rendering stories of the Muslim sense of sadness, rejection, alienation, or else dwell on the perpetrator’s history of woe—in Talovic’s case by blaming the bloodthirsty Serbs.

As Robert Spencer reminded us in the immediate aftermath of Talovic’s attack, over the past year there have been several incidents of sudden acts of random extreme violence by Muslims against Americans. It is remarkable that even when the perpetrator explicitly linked his motives to jihad, the authorities refused to accept that explanation:

—On January 31, Ismail Yassin Mohamed, 22, stole a car in Minneapolis, rammed it into other cars, then stole a van and continued to ram other cars, injuring one person. All along, Mohamed repeatedly yelled, “Die, die, die, kill, kill, kill”; when asked why he did all this, he replied, “Allah made me do it.”

—Omeed Aziz Popal, an Afghan immigrant, killed one person and injured 14 during a murderous drive through the streets of San Francisco in August 2006, during which he targeted people on crosswalks and sidewalks. He identified himself as a terrorist but the authorities subsequently ascribed the incident to Popal’s mental problems and stress resulting from his forthcoming arranged marriage.

—On July 28, 2006, Naveed Afzal Haq forced his way into the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle. Once inside, Haq announced, “I’m a Muslim American; I’m angry at Israel,” and then began shooting, killing one woman and injuring five more; yet an FBI agent stated: “We believe . . . it’s a lone individual acting out his antagonism. There’s nothing to indicate that it’s terrorism-related.”

—In March 2006, a 22-year-old Iranian student named Mohammed Reza Taheri-Azar drove an SUV onto the campus of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, deliberately trying to kill people and succeeding in injuring nine. At a court appearance he explained that he was “thankful for the opportunity to spread the will of Allah.” Officials again dismissed terrorism as a motive, even after Taheri-Azar wrote a series of letters to the UNC campus newspaper detailing the Qur’anic justification for attacks on unbelievers.

The list of SJS-related incidents, and official denials of the syndrome’s existence, is growing longer each year, starting with the killing of Meir Kahane in New York in November 1990 by

El Sayyid Nosair. The authorities ascribed the killing not to jihad but to Nosair’s “depression.”

In March 1994, Rashid Baz, a Lebanese immigrant, opened fire on a van carrying members of a Jewish congregation on Brooklyn Bridge, killing one boy. The authorities claimed it was a case of “road rage.”

In February 1997 Ali Abu Kamal, a Palestinian immigrant, opened fire on the observation deck of the Empire State Building, killing one tourist and injuring six others before committing suicide. The authorities attributed the incident to Kamal’s “mental instability” caused by a failed business venture, and that version remained officially accepted until a month ago. Last month, however, his daughter admitted that a letter had been found on her father’s body justifying his act by his religiously inspired hatred for America, Britain, France, and Israel.

In 2002 two cases of SJS occurred at airports. In July Hesham Mohammed Hadayet opened fire at the Israeli Airlines counter at LAX, killing two people and injuring four. The FBI initially claimed that “there’s nothing to indicate terrorism,” but reclassified the attack as a terrorist act when it was revealed that Hadayet may have been involved with Al-Qaeda. In September Patrick Gott, a Muslim convert, killed one person and wounded another at New Orleans airport. He was armed with a shotgun and his Kuran, but the authorities claimed he was insane.

In October of that same year two converts to Islam, John Mohammed and Lee Malvo, killed 13 people in a spree that terrorized Washington and its suburbs for weeks; and yet again the media and the authorities denied the obvious connection. It was subsequently revealed that Malvo’s prolific religiously-inspired “artwork” included a self-portrait in the cross hairs of a gun scope shouting, ALLAH AKBAR! with the word SALAAM scrawled vertically, and a drawing of the Twin Towers burning and captions JIHAD ISLAM UNITE RISE! along with “America did this” and “You were warned.”

In March 2003 U.S. Army Sergeant Asan Akbar threw a grenade into a tent with fellow soldiers in Kuwait, killing an officer and wounding 13. He declared at the time of his arrest, “You guys are coming into our countries, and you’re going to rape our women and kill our children.” He gave his home address as the Masjid Bilal Islamic Center in South Central Los Angeles, to which he belonged and where he worshiped. In spite of this, George Heath, a public affairs officer for Fort Campbell, Ky., where the suspect was based, explained the incident by asserting that Akbar faced “a leadership challenge.” Another U.S. Army spokesman said the motive for the attack was most likely “resentment” rooted in Akbar’s “attitude problem.” Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld blandly called the attack “the kind of an incident that occurs in cities and towns from time to time, and it’s always unfortunate, always tragic, and one has to go through a process of investigation to try to determine what in fact happened and why it happened.”

Five months later Mohammed Ali Alayed slashed the throat of his erstwhile Jewish friend, Ariel Sellouk, following Alayed’s rediscovery of his Islamic identity. After the murder he went to a mosque. The authorities nevertheless “could not find any evidence that Sellouk…was killed because of his race or religion,” enabling Alayed’s defense attorney to claim that “there was no evidence to substantiate the hate element.”

In May 2005 firefighters conducting a routine inspection in a Brooklyn supermarket found 200 automobile airbags—which contain components that can be used to make bombs—and a room lined with posters of Osama bin Laden and beheadings in Iraq. Yet officials were again adamant: this has nothing to do with terrorism.

In June 2006 Michael Julius Ford, a Muslim convert, shot to death one fellow worker at a Denver Safeway and injured five before being killed by the police. And yes, his friends and family, and the Denver Post, were all baffled: apparently he did not drink or smoke,

He did not have conflicts with people. He did not run with gangs. He wasn’t moody. He never was known to carry weapons. What isn’t known is why the 22-year-old walked into work on Sunday at the Safeway distribution center and started shooting at his co-workers with a long-barreled handgun and setting fires inside the building.

Later in the same article Ford’s sister Khali is quoted as saying, “He told me that Allah was going to make a choice and it was going to be good, and told me people at his job was [sic!] making fun of his religion and he didn’t respect that.”

But why did he do it? The mystery remains unresolved. Watch this space.

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04/13/2007 12:42 PM  
I would be interested to hear just how SJS is different from the tendency of some people to act out violently against people who are different than them, such as white supremacists lynching blacks or people beating (and killing) gays.

The similarity that I see is that within just about any group of people, there are those who are prone to act out violently against others. While there are sects of Islam that are very public about their desire to wipe out all infidels, they are remarkably tolerant and loving compared to the KKK. For every Muslim who has killed a random American because of hatred, there has been more than one American who has killed a random fellow citizen because he hated them.

The biggest difference that I see is that Muslims tend to hate Americans as a group, and white Americans are not accustomed to being hated.

My point is that I am concerned that people will use the idea of SJS to paint all Muslims as murderous fanatics, even though they typical Muslim (especially in this country) is not more likely to try to kill infidels than the typical Christian is to beat a homosexual to death.

In the end, the motives that drive a person to murder are often quite complex, and it is unlikely that a largely unpracticed religious tenet is not nearly as likely to lead to a killing spree as a personal grudge arising from perceived abuse by others (consider the Columbine incident, which seems quite similar to the Trolley Square incident).
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04/13/2007 2:10 PM  
All across the world, violent Jihad is being waged. One need only read a newspaper to learn about attacks in Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, India, Jordan, Syria etc. etc. There is a big difference between the Klan and Islamofacism. There are approximately, 1.3 billion Muslims and a tiny minority of Klaners. Are all Muslims terrorists? Of course not! Depending on who you ask though, one gets estimates of between 10% to 25% or more Muslims who support violent Jihad. This has been indicated time and time again by poll after poll. Yet, those in the West, who have been inculcated with Multiculturalism or Political Correctness, respond like jack in the boxes. You can't write about Muslims and terrorism! That is stereotyping, etc. etc. What truly amazes me, is that highly intelligent people cannot see that they have been brainwashed by extensive programing in our so called institutions of higher learning.
Another symptom of this problem, is moral relativism. By comparing Columbine to violent Jihad, they both come out in the wash! This is what passes for logic these days. I am tired of arguing with people like this. No amount of information or logic, put even a dent in their beliefs. I do have some compassion for them, in that I used to think exactly like they do. It took me many years to realize how much programing I had been subjected too. Unfortunately, most people are unwilling to examine their belief system. It is just to uncomfortable. Over 90% of the Mosques in the US have been funded and staffed by Saudi Arabia. As most of you know, they practice a very strict form of Islam, known as Wahabism. This county is just beginning to experience the seeds that are being planted in these Mosques and our prisons.
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04/16/2007 12:15 PM  
There is a big difference between the Klan and Islamofacism. There are approximately, 1.3 billion Muslims and a tiny minority of Klaners. Are all Muslims terrorists? Of course not! Depending on who you ask though, one gets estimates of between 10% to 25% or more Muslims who support violent Jihad.


Implicit in your statement is the notion that ALL Muslims support violent Jihad. You later state that 90% of Mosques in the US are funded and staffed by Saudi Arabia, implying that Saudi Arabia is fueling Jihad in the US by its support of these Mosques. If violent Jihad is the enemy of the west, then mainstream Muslims can get behind the effort to stamp it out. But if we lump all Muslims together, we risk alienating an essential ally in our fight.

Also, your distinction between the KKK and Jihadists is faulty. You are correct in stating that only a tiny fraction of the country can be found among the ranks of the KKK, however there is no doubt a much larger segment that supports white supremacy and discrimination. Even assuming that 10-25% of Muslims support violent Jihad, only a small fraction are actually engaging in it. It is an unfair generalization to assume that just because a small percentage of Muslims even support violent Jihad that all Muslims are therefore enemies of the United States.

As to your point that political correctness has made us blind to this threat, I must disagree. As FieryDarts correctly points out, the reasons that a person might commit murder are often quite complex. The tenuous link between violent Jihad and Talovic's actions alleged by the article is too simplistic. The article states:
If we assume that Talovic was motivated by jihad,...

Let's take a moment and assume he wasn't motivated by jihad. It seems just as likely that he was motivated by the horrors he witnessed as a child, the abrupt change in lifestyle he saw when he moved, mental disease, depression, and a host of other possible causes unadressed by the article. I did some research, and the examples listed all could be just as reasonably explained by similar problems. The small synopses quoted fail to convey the full complexity of the issues surrounding each of those acts. Also, I fail to see how comparing Talovic to Klebold and Harris is a wash. Maybe you could explain that point more clearly.

The problem with the point you are making is that it does not provide us with a good solution. If Islam is the enemy of the West, what are we to do about it? Round up and imprison (without any possiblity of parole) all Muslims? Carpet bomb Saudi Arabia? If we do not make the distinction between the violent factions of Islam and its devout mainstream adherents, people may make the assumption that the author of the article makes and begin to exact revenge on Muslims or take the law into their own hands. It is because of political correctness that we are able to make that distinction and avoid the type of bigotry that fueled the creation of Japanese Internment camps in World War II. For that reason, political correctness is a strength in our country, not a weakness.
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04/16/2007 4:24 PM  
I am increasingly amazed at the inability of many people to understand a coherent argument. Gee, did I say that “all Muslims are Terrorists?” In fact I stated that all Muslims are not terrorists. I can only assume that your educational brainwashing has blurred your ability to step back from your programming (ie we cannot begin to blame any given group regarding certain behavior, because this could lead to stereotyping or whatever/multiculturalism). Perhaps ignorance is part to blame. If you know anything about Islam, you would immediately grasp the threat posed by Saudi Arabia funding/controlling most of the Mosques and Imams in this country. In the printed article Mr. Trifkovik presents a very informed argument as to why one might suspect that he might have been influenced by radical Islamic thought. You see this is called reasoned speculation. We will never know for certain why the perpetrator did what he did. I would feel much better about things if the authorities didn’t go to great lengths to cover up any possible reasons having to do with radical Islam.
What bothers me and should bother you is the self imposed censorship of our Major Media and Law enforcement when it comes do domestic Muslim terrorism. You also seem unaware of the lack of action on behalf of the so called moderate Muslims condemning violent Jihad. Those few who have tried have been intimidated, threatened and otherwise prevented from countering this strain. Much has been written about this problem, but I am sure you are ignorant of any of this. I have spent a great deal of time studying Islam and particularly Radical Islam during the last six years. There is a high probability that in the next forty years most of Western Europe will have a Muslim majority. This most certainly means an end to representative democracy, equal rights (especially for women) and the death of Western Civilization. It will mean the imposition of Sharia Law.
Of course people like you will ignore this as alarmist thinking and go on in your delusional life failing to make any connection until it is too late. Historians will scratch their heads and wonder why the West was unable to grasp the growing threat posed. You ask what we are to do about it if Islam is a threat to the West. I would argue that recognizing the threat would be the first step. But you seem to think that I or people like me, would want to lock all Muslims up like we did to the Japanese. That again is your programming kicking in.
It is you who make great leaps of logic or fail to supply any facts. You seem to think that there is a significant portion of this country who are racists at heart. Where did that come from? Could that be more of your programming? Although, I believe I am wasting my time with you two, I do believe it important to add some insight to others who might read this.
In a survey of Naturalized Citizens 90% of Muslims immigrants said that if there were a conflict between the United States and their country of origin they would be inclined to support their country of origin. Does that concern you at all? How much research have you do regarding this issue? I would be willing to bet next to nothing. You just accept the platitudes inserted in your brain by your professors, etc. What happened at Trolley Square fits a pattern. Alienated youth looking for a solution to their alienation seek advice at their local mosque. There someone provides them with a reason why they feel the way they do. It is American society that is the problem. America is corrupt and needs to be destroyed or conquered. It is the duty of every good Muslim to commit Jihad! He will be rewarded in the next life with paradise. Just kill a few Kefirs and strike a blow for Islam. Sound familiar?
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04/17/2007 5:56 PM  
It's unfortunate that rather than make arguments, you simply indict my education and knowledge, assuming that I have neither. However, a mere attack on the credibility of the speaker doesn't constitute a valid argument. Independent of whether or not my arguments come from my "programming", they are nevertheless arguments and must be answered head-on. If I am wrong, then you should be able to present reasoned analyses and refutations of my positions. You have not.

Among the arguments I would like to see addressed are:

If Jihadist Islam is to blame for these attacks and is expected to cause more, what is your solution? I quote:
In a survey of Naturalized Citizens 90% of Muslims immigrants said that if there were a conflict between the United States and their country of origin they would be inclined to support their country of origin. Does that concern you at all?


From this statement, it appears that you believe that all Muslims are potential threats to the United States, so I have a hard time seeing how you plan to prevent these supposedly inevitable attacks without mass incarcerations. Additionally, if non-Arabs can also be recruited to Jihadist Islam (see the Malcolm X reference above), how do you plan on preventing those people from lashing out violently? Consider the scenario you posit:
Alienated youth looking for a solution to their alienation seek advice at their local mosque. There someone provides them with a reason why they feel the way they do. It is American society that is the problem. America is corrupt and needs to be destroyed or conquered. It is the duty of every good Muslim to commit Jihad! He will be rewarded in the next life with paradise. Just kill a few Kefirs and strike a blow for Islam.

If this is a problem, then aren't all "alienated youth" potentially corruptible by Jihadist teachings? How will you prevent those youth from hearing those messages or being corrupted by them?

The second point that you have not addressed is the point made by FieryDarts. He argues that just because a small faction of a religion believes something, that doesn't mean that those beliefs can be projected on the entire religion. We cannot assume that because a small fraction (even 1/4) of Muslims support violent Jihad that all Muslims share that same belief. Another word for this fallacy is "stereotyping". Despite your assertion that you don't believe that all Muslims are terrorists, you fail to make any distinctions in your arguments between this violent sect and mainstream Islam. In fact, you reveal the shortcomings in your own knowledge by making the connection between,
in the next forty years most of Western Europe will have a Muslim majority

and
This most certainly means an end to representative democracy, equal rights (especially for women) and the death of Western Civilization. It will mean the imposition of Sharia Law.


Sharia Law is only practiced by a fraction of Muslims. To assume that because Muslims will hold a majority in all Western European democracies, Sharia law will "most certainly" be imposed, along with abolishment of representative democracy, etc. is fallacious, unless you are implying that they will somehow overtake every government by force. In fact, even the most "alarmist" (or informed, if you prefer) estimates show that even if Muslims did hold a majority, that wouldn't necessarily mean the imposition of Sharia law. If 40% of Muslims support the imposition of Sharia law, they could never command a majority in every Western European country. (For the stats I used, see http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=432075&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5)

Finally, you still haven't explained why comparing Talovic to Harris and Klebold is a wash. You make the assertion without providing any supporting arguments. I am certainly willing to consider your position (which contrary to your assumptions, I have heard before), but I cannot properly do so until you give me something to work with beyond bare statements and no citations to "facts". Clearly you have been persuaded by this position, and I would like to hear the arguments that brought you to hold that belief.
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04/17/2007 7:52 PM  
You also seem unaware of the lack of action on behalf of the so called moderate Muslims condemning violent Jihad.


One of the most stunning aspects of Islamic Jihad is the passion with which many of them carry it out upon their Muslim brothers. While Muslim terrorists have been attacking westerners in Iraq and surrounding regions since the US invasion, they have been killing far, far more of their own countrymen who belong to the wrong sect. I would liken it to the schisms within Christianity, especially during the early Protestant Reformation when, depending on where they were, Catholics and Protestants both were persecuted and killed for their beliefs.

I wish that it were possible for all Christians to love their Muslim brothers and sisters. I wish that we could learn to "bless them that curse [us], do good to them that hate [us], and pray for them which despitefully use [us], and persecute [us]." I want Muslims to learn to be at peace with themselves, both as individuals and believers, and as people. Of course I don't want them to succeed in their efforts to hurt people because I do not believe that would be good for them. I also wish that my Christian brothers and sisters could be at peace with themselves and with others.

It worries me when I see the same attitudes among Americans that I see at the heart of Islamic disagreements. I take heart from the fact that most of the people in this country have found ways to express themselves without killing anyone ("This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.") but that is a relatively new development and under this thin, newfound veneer of civility beats the hearts of a lot of terrorists (if you doubt me, then read some of the comments on the KSL.com articles where people call for the execution, torture, mutilation, or other brutalization of various criminals).

For now, I would be happy just to see Americans not fall into the same trap of stereotyping (Muslims as terrorists) that many of them do (grouping all Americans as immoral and decadent).
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04/18/2007 7:09 PM  

I am very frustrated in debating you, because 1) you put words in my mouth or misrepresent my position 2) you seem unable to understand many of my arguments 3) I think you are ignorant regarding much of Islamic thougts, theology, beliefs and behavior.
The issue which I am addressing is awareness. Can you understand that? Solutions are a completely different subject. If we fail to realiize or understand there is a problem or refuse to address the problem because of PC beliefs then nothing is accomplished.
I believe all groups of immigrants who do not share common American values are a threat. Assimilation of these groups is imperative.
I would not call 130 plus million a tiny fraction!
It does not take a majority of any group to impose their will. The Sunni minority of Iraq managed quite well for many years. There are numerous other examples as well. Muslims in Cananda, England, France, Belguim etc are demanding that they be tried or covered under Sharia law. Some in these countries seem willing to consider this. A leader in Belguim said that he had no problem with Sharia law being inacted if that is what the majority want. I fail to see how the article you referenced in the Daily Mail supports your conclusions. White europeans have a much lower birth rate than Muslim immigrants. That is why in fourty years or so they will be a majority. What we are seeing in Europe, Autralia and Canada is a growing trend. You seem to fail to appreciate this. Many Muslim authorities believe that democracy and Islam are incompatable. I suggest you spend some time at the site theirownwords.com.

I find myself engaging in circular arguments with you and your friends. I grow tired of this exercise. I see your beliefs as part of the problem and your own words are the best argument that I could ask for.

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04/20/2007 9:09 PM  
It seems that two things have happened. First of all, there has been some misunderstanding about why I have made the points that I have made. Second, the misunderstanding has caused us to stray from the original topic.

Originally, this thread was about Sudden Jihad Syndrome, which has the catchy TLA of SJS. SJS is an idea that was conceived by Daniel Pipes who, in introducing it stated, “Individual Islamists may appear law-abiding and reasonable, but they are part of a totalitarian movement, and as such, all must be considered potential killers.” SJS was conceived as a way to explain why perfectly normal, peace-loving Muslims will sometimes lash out violently against others (originally it may have focused on violence against non-Muslims, but most Muslim violence is directed against other Muslims these days so any violent acts can fairly be covered). While it is undeniable that many Muslims engage in (or want to engage in) violence against others, I take great exception to the idea of SJS. The very idea of SJS categorizes all Muslims as violent jihadists, whether or not they even believe in jihad. By stating that a person suffers from SJS, you are implying that you believe that all Muslims are terrorists at heart.

That is why I have assumed that you believe that all Muslims are terrorists. You have, perhaps unwittingly, embraced a philosophy that holds that belief. Perhaps you haven't personally followed the idea of SJS to its logical conclusion. I certainly hope that you haven't. The ultimate reality is that Muslims exist in our world, in our country, and in our communities. Many of them feel alienated and misunderstood by their Christian neighbors, and as a result, they may not be willing to help or trust them. If we are to live peacefully with Islam, we should reach out to them and understand them. Maybe they're not all ready for peace, but we can work with the ones who are unless we do stupid things, like lumping them all into an evil stereotype, to alienate them.

So, I hope that this will help to heal the debate. It certainly is frustrating to try to argue a point when your opponent is arguing a completely different one. If you want to discuss the motives of killers (which was probably your original intent with this thread), then we can do that. If you wish to discuss SJS, then we can do that. If you want to continue to speculate on the consequences of Turkish immigration into Europe (I anticipate a lot more döner/donair stands), that's another interesting topic.
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Intergalactic Multi Phase Dementsion

04/22/2007 5:12 PM  
Dear Fiery Darts Thank you for such a thoughtful post. I have had three debates going on at the same time and it can be confusing to keep everything straight. My entire reason for making the above post was two fold. First, it bothers me greatly, that the media and many leo agencies take it upon themselves to decide what I should about about any given incident. I am a firm believer in the free flow of information and ideas. Unfortunately, from my perspective, far to much is being suppressed in the interest of political correctness or whatever you want to call it. Over the years I have had many Muslims friends. I have prayed in a Mosque and have read much or the Koran and other Muslim texts. I also have a great interest in theology in general. I especially find Hinduism fascinating. I have read a great deal from Mr. Pipes and also Robert Spencer. These are both very knowledgeable and courageous men. They literally are risking their life on a daily basis to confront radical Islam. There has been a lot of pap and nonsense put out by some in Academia. I believe you are mistaken in your assertion that SJS leads to thinking that all Muslims are terrorists. This leads me to my second reason for this post. That was to encourage all who bother to read my columns to think critically about this issue. The issue of Islam-ism, Islamofascism or Salafism who whatever you choose to call it is the defining issue of our times and will only become greater in the future. This conflict has been going on for over a thousand years but because of modern methods of travel and communication as well as the high price for oil has truly heightened the situation greatly. If Iran achieves its desire for an atomic weapon the results will be truly catastrophic. It will not only lead to an arms race within the Middle East but increases the likelihood that both Israel and the US will suffer an attack leading the death of hundreds of thousands if not millions. Most people, especially those in Europe seem oblivious to this danger. I have no wish to harm others. I only ask the same in reverse. Unfortunately, there are many who deem it a religious duty to destroy all those with whom they have differences. If you have the time you might want to read from theirownwords.com or religionofpeace.com to see how actual common these Islamists are.
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Intergalactic Multi Phase Dementsion

04/28/2007 4:07 PM  
Based upon a survey of four Islamic countries by WorldPublicOpinion.org

Equally large majorities agree with goals that involve expanding the role of Islam in their society. On average, about three out of four agree with seeking to “require Islamic countries to impose a strict application of sharia,” and to “keep Western values out of Islamic countries.” Two-thirds would even like to “unify all Islamic counties into a single Islamic state or caliphate.”



This is why I say the things that I do.
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